Conroe Buying Guide: Feeding the Monster
by Gary Key & Wesley Fink on July 19, 2006 6:20 AM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
ASUS P5B Deluxe
Basic Features
ASUS has done a fantastic job in putting together a full-featured, quiet, and stable Intel P965 motherboard for Core 2 Duo. Almost every feature lavished on the P5W-DH Deluxe is also present on the P5B Deluxe. This includes an 8-phase power design and fan-less heatpipe cooling.
The feature set of the ASUS 965 board is also outstanding, with the real issues with the P5B Deluxe limited to general complaints and questions about how Intel has implemented the 965 chipset. For more information on the Intel P965 chipset please look back at the AnandTech preview of the 965 chipset.
Despite the similarity of the ASUS 975X and 965 top boards, a closer look at options does tell you 965 is targeted a bit lower than 975. The FSB adjusts to 400 on 965, more than enough on most processors, except Conroe actually can reach 400, 450, and beyond. The 975X has adjustments to 500 FSB. Other subtle differences are the ADI chipset HD audio on 965 and a Dolby Digital Master Studio (Dolby Digital Live) audio choice for the 975X.
Basic Performance
Intel's thinking on the 965 chipset remains a mystery to us. We expected the new 965 might be a bit faster than 975 since Intel tells us the 965 uses a better memory controller. That was not the case, as 965 remained a bit slower than 975X. The missing support for CrossFire is also a mystery. The 965 has an X16 slot and an X4 slot, but it cannot operate in multi-GPU mode for CrossFire. The only Intel option for CrossFire is the 975X.
Another odd puzzle is that the X6800, which is completely unlocked, only operates unlocked DOWN in P965. The stock multiplier of the 2.93 chip is 11x, and you cannot select higher multipliers on P965 as you can on 975X. On the one hand Intel is telling us all that the P965 is a uniquely up-to-date chipset that supports Conroe really well, while on the other hand we discover 965 is crippled in some areas compared to 975X. You will also see the 965 does not support ECC memory while the 975X does, but that will only matter to a small percentage of users.
Perhaps with time the P965 will become a faster, better board than 975, but at this point in time the BIOS implementations are much more immature than 975X BIOS solutions. Based on the costs we have seen for top 965 boards compared to 975, it would take a big price difference to persuade us to buy 965 instead. In general, those wider price differences don't exist in this round of motherboards. Both ASUS boards, the 975X P5W-DH and the P965 P5B Deluxe, are now for sale at the same $269 price. Frankly, at the same price we could never recommend this 965 motherboard over the better performing, better-featured and better-overclocking 975X model.
Overclocking
While 965 is being talked about as the better match to Conroe, we are finding that basic performance of the 965 boards is still a bit below 975X performance. This is particularly true in the overclocking area, where we have generally reached lower overclocks with 965 boards than we could achieve with the better 975 boards. In this case the ASUS P5B Deluxe has a maximum FSB range of 400 (bios 0403 released today now raises this to 500), while the ASUS 975X board has settings to 500 FSB. This 400 top limited the highest overclock we could achieve to a 372 FSB, or a 39% OC of the 2.66 E6700 compared to the 50% overclock it achieved on the ASUS P5W-DH Deluxe.
Overclocking is still much less stable on the 965 ASUS than we experienced on their 975X motherboard. The ASUS board is generally stable, but it could still benefit from a few more rounds of BIOS refinement. In fact, all of the 965 boards were less polished and mature than their 975X counterparts - not to mention the missing features detailed above.
Basic Features
| ASUS P5B Deluxe | |
| Market Segment | High-End/Enthusiast |
| CPU Interface | Socket T (Socket 775) |
| Chipset | Intel P965 + ICH8R |
| Thermal Design | 8-phase power Fan-less Heatpipe Cooling ASUS Stack Cool 2 for OC |
| Default Bus Speed | 1066 (533/266) |
| Bus Speeds | 100 to 400 in 1MHz Increments |
| Memory Speeds | DDR2 at Auto,400,533,667,800,889,1067 |
| PCIe Speeds | Auto, 90 to 150 in 1MHz Increments |
| Performance Mode | Auto, Standard Turbo |
| AI Overclocking | Manual, Auto, Overclock Profile, AI N.O.S. |
| PCI | Auto, 33.3, To CPU |
| Core Voltage | Auto, 1.225V (Actual CPU voltage) to 1.7000V in 0.0125V increments |
| FSB Termination Voltage | Auto, 1.2v, 1.3v, 1.4v, 1.45v |
| NB Voltage | Auto, 1.25v, 1.35v, 1.45v, 1.55v |
| SB Voltage | Auto, 1.5v, 1.6v, 1.7v, 1.8v |
| PEG Link Mode | Auto, Slow, Normal, Fast, Faster |
| CPU Clock Multiplier | Auto, 6x-CPU default in 1X increments (depends on CPU) - DOWN only |
| DRAM Voltage | Auto, 1.8V to 2.45V in .05v increments (except for 2.2V) |
| Multi-GPU Option | None |
| Memory Slots | Four 240-pin DDR2 DIMM Slots Dual-Channel Configuration Unbuffered non ECC Memory to 8GB Total |
| Expansion Slots | 1 PCIe X16 1 PCIe X16 operating at X4 or X2 1 PCIe X1 3 PCI Slots |
| Onboard SATA/RAID | 6 SATA2 3Gb/s Drives by Intel ICH8R (RAID 0,1,5,10) PLUS 2 SATA2 3 Gb/s Drives by JMicronJMB363 (RAID 0,1) (1 internal,1 external) TOTAL 8 Sata2 3Gb/s drives |
| Onboard IDE/IDE RAID | One Standard ATA133/100/66 (2 drives) by JMicron JMB363 |
| Onboard USB 2.0/IEEE-1394 | 8 USB 2.0 ports supported by ICH8R 2 Firewire 1394a by TI |
| Onboard LAN | DUAL PCIe/PCI Gigabit by Marvel for AI Net2, PLUS WiFi 54Mbps supporting 802.11g |
| Onboard Audio | Azalia HD Audio by ADI 1988B 8 channel codec |
| Power Connectors | 24-pin ATX 4 or 8-pin EATX 12V |
| Back Panel I/O Ports | 1 x PS/2 Keyboard 1 x PS/2 Mouse 1 x Serial 1 x Audio I/O Panel (6 plug programmable) 1 x Optical S/PDIF Out Port 1 x Coaxial S/PDIF Out Port 1 x IEEE 1394a Firewire 1 x External SATA2 2 x RJ45 LAN 1 x Wireless LAN antenna 4 x USB |
| BIOS Revision | AMI 0602 - June 30, 2006 |
ASUS has done a fantastic job in putting together a full-featured, quiet, and stable Intel P965 motherboard for Core 2 Duo. Almost every feature lavished on the P5W-DH Deluxe is also present on the P5B Deluxe. This includes an 8-phase power design and fan-less heatpipe cooling.
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| Click to enlarge |
The feature set of the ASUS 965 board is also outstanding, with the real issues with the P5B Deluxe limited to general complaints and questions about how Intel has implemented the 965 chipset. For more information on the Intel P965 chipset please look back at the AnandTech preview of the 965 chipset.
Despite the similarity of the ASUS 975X and 965 top boards, a closer look at options does tell you 965 is targeted a bit lower than 975. The FSB adjusts to 400 on 965, more than enough on most processors, except Conroe actually can reach 400, 450, and beyond. The 975X has adjustments to 500 FSB. Other subtle differences are the ADI chipset HD audio on 965 and a Dolby Digital Master Studio (Dolby Digital Live) audio choice for the 975X.
Basic Performance
Intel's thinking on the 965 chipset remains a mystery to us. We expected the new 965 might be a bit faster than 975 since Intel tells us the 965 uses a better memory controller. That was not the case, as 965 remained a bit slower than 975X. The missing support for CrossFire is also a mystery. The 965 has an X16 slot and an X4 slot, but it cannot operate in multi-GPU mode for CrossFire. The only Intel option for CrossFire is the 975X.
Another odd puzzle is that the X6800, which is completely unlocked, only operates unlocked DOWN in P965. The stock multiplier of the 2.93 chip is 11x, and you cannot select higher multipliers on P965 as you can on 975X. On the one hand Intel is telling us all that the P965 is a uniquely up-to-date chipset that supports Conroe really well, while on the other hand we discover 965 is crippled in some areas compared to 975X. You will also see the 965 does not support ECC memory while the 975X does, but that will only matter to a small percentage of users.
Perhaps with time the P965 will become a faster, better board than 975, but at this point in time the BIOS implementations are much more immature than 975X BIOS solutions. Based on the costs we have seen for top 965 boards compared to 975, it would take a big price difference to persuade us to buy 965 instead. In general, those wider price differences don't exist in this round of motherboards. Both ASUS boards, the 975X P5W-DH and the P965 P5B Deluxe, are now for sale at the same $269 price. Frankly, at the same price we could never recommend this 965 motherboard over the better performing, better-featured and better-overclocking 975X model.
Overclocking
| ASUS P5B Deluxe Overclocking Testbed |
|
| Processor: | Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Dual Core, 2.67GHz, 4MB Unified Cache 1066FSB, 10x Multiplier |
| CPU Voltage: | 1.525V (default 1.2V) |
| Cooling: | Tuniq Tower 120 Air Cooling |
| Power Supply: | OCZ GameXstream 700W |
| Memory: | Corsair Twin2X2048-PC2-8500C5 (2x1GB) (Micron Memory Chips) |
| Hard Drive | Hitachi 250GB 7200RPM SATA2 16MB Cache |
| Maximum OC: (Standard Ratio) |
372x10 3720MHz (+39%) |
While 965 is being talked about as the better match to Conroe, we are finding that basic performance of the 965 boards is still a bit below 975X performance. This is particularly true in the overclocking area, where we have generally reached lower overclocks with 965 boards than we could achieve with the better 975 boards. In this case the ASUS P5B Deluxe has a maximum FSB range of 400 (bios 0403 released today now raises this to 500), while the ASUS 975X board has settings to 500 FSB. This 400 top limited the highest overclock we could achieve to a 372 FSB, or a 39% OC of the 2.66 E6700 compared to the 50% overclock it achieved on the ASUS P5W-DH Deluxe.
Overclocking is still much less stable on the 965 ASUS than we experienced on their 975X motherboard. The ASUS board is generally stable, but it could still benefit from a few more rounds of BIOS refinement. In fact, all of the 965 boards were less polished and mature than their 975X counterparts - not to mention the missing features detailed above.
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Bochista - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
With the release of new Quad SLI beta drivers I would like to know what board is compatible with both the Conroe & Quad SLI. Being CPU bound in graphics I think it would very interesting to see. The ASUS P5N32-SLI SE is not on the Quad-SLI list. The Asus P5N32-SLI Deluxe is not either.Bo
Gary Key - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
It should be on the list shortly. This is the board that NVIDIA has been using to test and display Quad SLI on with Conroe. We also understand this board will probably make its way into several Quad SLI systems according to NVIDIA. It will be interesting to see how this board performs against the nF590 in a couple of weeks. ;-)
jonmcguffin - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
If Core 2 Duo is sucking up so much less energy, why have I not heard anything about the need to NOT buy the 500-650 watt power supplies. It would seem to me that a processor and mainboard that consumers so little power would not need anything more than a good 350 or 400 watt power supply, even in an SLI configuration.It would be nice to see something written up in your review that stated...
Hey, these processors are going to require X amount of power on the lower end and X amount on the higher end. Given power supplies are typically only 75-80% efficient and leaving another 10-15% left over in overhead, you should be using power supplies with a watt rating of X.
Jon
Gary Key - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
Jon,Anand went over the power requirements in the CPU review article. However, from a platform level the current 7900GTX and X1900XT cards in SLI or Crossfire will require a very good 500+ watt (on the edge with CrossFire) power supply with Conroe, AM2, or Netburst CPUs. In fact, we highly recommend and use 700+ watt machines in our systems to ensure proper power delivery when running SLI or CrossFire while overclocking. The power requirements of the next generation GPUs for SLI or CrossFire will require 700w power supplies and we generally will see 900+ watt supplies for those who expect to overclock both the CPU and GPU. While we have seen the CPUs reduce their power requirements over the last two years (except at the high end until Conroe, AM2 EE is great), the GPU requirements along with the platform chipsets (ATI RD580 is the exception currently) have sky rocketed. By the time you add a couple of large hard drives, optical drives, SLI or Crossfire, and a FX60 or 955XE, you are already limited by the typical 400~500 watt power supply. While Conroe will make a difference compared to most Netburst based CPUs and the upper end AM2 processor series, it is not enough to even think about dropping below 500w at this time. In my personal systems, the first item I budget for is a really good power supply, never skimp on proper rail voltages and quality, it is the basis for a trouble free system.
Hope this helps....
ninethirty - Friday, July 21, 2006 - link
Would you guys mind doing some tests to back that up in Part 2? Reading SilentPCReview.com, there's some pretty convincing arguments that the need for higher wattage is overblown. And 900W+ is hard to believe...pretty soon you'll be talking about dedicated wall sockets.I think most folks are talking about one video card, not SLI. I'd like to issue a challenge: try a test with the Core 2 Duo, a Geforce 7600GT like in the "Building a Better Budget PC" article, and a 300W Seasonic PSU (or any 80% efficient, true-to-ratings). Then, see how it effects overclocking. That PSU can run an AMD64 x2 3800+ and a 7900GT, why couldn't it run the Core 2 Duo with voltage to spare?
There, I've thrown in my gauntlet.
jonmcguffin - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
#1) Paul - My point in bringing up the Digital Thermal Sensor capability of the Core 2 Duo chip and it's "possible" support on the P965 was mainly just to show that there may in fact be certain features the P965 has that are superior to the 975X. Certainly not planning any extreme overclocking and a good HSF is certainly a priority, but still utilizing the Core 2 Duo chip to its fullest abilities is important to me and that means a motherboard that supports this Core 2 Duo feature. If P965 boards support this feature out of the box and the 975X boards don’t, it’s a factor that could play into my purchasing decision.#2) Thanks Gary & Wesley for the explanation on why you didn't include the AB9 Pro motherboard. That makes perfect sense. It seems to me this is the board to target but to be at this point in the game and NOT have a mature enough BIOS to manipulate RAM settings is a little concerning to me. This coupled with Abit's financial issue's in the past almost have me fearful of taking a chance on this board.
I hope in your roundup article you will provide some insight into all this business with 12-phase power and solid state capacitors. What does this mean to the over clocker or the serious workstation user?
Lastly.......
Slightly off-topic here but PERHAPS something you two could include in your more extensive roundup of the next Core 2 Duo motherboards or maybe in a separate article.
On-Board Audio……….
This may be old hat to many here, but this is an issue that I haven't seen addressed anywhere recently. On-Board audio solutions have "evidently" been creaping up on SB products for sometime now. A better explanation as to the feature benefits of some of these on-board solutions (RealTek 882D, 882, 883, 885, 888, ADI, etc) and how they are implemented would be helpful.
#1) Top of this list is the confusion regarding digital audio & HD Audio. Seems every mobo now includes either Optical or Coax digital out on their back plates. What does tihs mean to the gamer, the audio professional, audiophile, or just the everyday computer user who wants to hook up an external amp and some higher end speakers and listen to very high quality stereo music. What the heck is HD Audio and what does that mean? How does it apply to the various groups I mentioned above?
#2 – If I’m going to use the digital out on my board, what difference does it make what onboard or offboard sound solution I use. If the computer is spitting out bit-by-bit digital audio data, isn’t a RealTek ALC650 digital out everybit as good as a Creative Labs SoundBlaster X-Fi Platinum Edition?
#3 – What is the deal with all the new audio codec’s out and their supposed support for Dolby Digital. What does this mean to the consumer? I would imagine 90% of all computer users here and a similar vast majority elsewhere don’t use anything more than a simple 2.1 configuration or perhaps headphones. 7.1 or 7.2 sound is worthless. Does Dolby Digital provide any extra benefits to these 2.1 or headphone listeners? Does it play back my music from .MP3’s or iTunes sound any better?
#4 – What really is EAX and is there that big of a difference between EAX 3.0 – EAX 5.0? And again, how does this relate to digital audio. If some external source is doing the audio conversion, do these technologies even matter?
These may appear to be rather easy questions to answer, but the reality is that we’ve been bombarded so badly with marketing by Creative and others with audio that most of us really don’t know what the heck it is we’re buying.
Personally, the quality of audio output is really important to me. I mostly listen to music and occasionally will play a few games. One BIG question for me is do I save $125 and go with on-board “digital” audio or not.
Thanks!
Jon
Paladin165 - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
7.2 sound??ic144 - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
Just by looking at this article, you can see how much attention is on Intel's Core 2 Duo. I don't remember so much attention was invested for the AMD Athlon64 FXs when they were launched. LOL.Wesley Fink - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
We looked back at the launch review of A64 on Sept. 23, 2003. As you can see for yourself at http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?... the AMD won Business Winstone and the Intel 3.2 won the MMC Winstone. Gaming results were split, with A64 winning most and the Intel 3.2 winning Quake 3. A64 led in Workstation development and Intel in Encoding. In other words, A64 won by a small margin. The AMD lead grew over time and our coverage continued to grow.We can't remember the last time a new CPU was laucnched that was 20% to 30% faster than the competition in everything we tested. There are really no weaknesses we have found in Core 2 Duo performance. This is a once in a decade event. AMD has responded with massive price cuts that position their new CPUs much more in line with Core 2 Duo based on performance, but they really don't have an answer to conroe, since almost every Conroe chip is faster than the fastest A64. We wish AMD did have a quick fix, since competition is good for buyers.
We are fans of performance at AT, and we have been very supportive of A64 as it took the performance lead and extended it over the past 2+ years. However, those who ignore the current Cnroe advantage are not looking at performance, they are speaking from emotion. Conroe performance can not be ignored or twisted with GPU-bound benchmarks to show show something that is simply not true. Things will likely shift again in the future - AMD has shown itself to be very resilient - and we will loudly proclaim AMD's lead if they regain the performance crown.
MadBoris - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
I owe Anandtech much, you guys have consistently provided excellent quality info for years.Thx for another great article, I'm looking forward to part two.
You guys have peaked my curiosity on the tuniq tower. I didn't see it reviewed here yet. Is it that much better than the competition, it's definitely beastly looking?