DFI UT P35-T2R: Tweakers Rejoice!
by Rajinder Gill on October 18, 2007 2:00 PM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
All Other Sub-Timings-
Using AUTO for all sub-timings is generally acceptable until we start pushing for every last MHz of bandwidth and latency. The BIOS defaults are generally tight enough for very good performance on 24/7 PCs. The BIOS profiles we are including in this article have been tuned for maximum performance while retaining full system stability. We used Memset 3.3 while running Microsoft XP to check where the AUTO DRAM timing defaults set the memory parameters. The timings shown by Memset were noted by us and entered manually into the relevant BIOS functions. We then began to tighten these values one at a time, noting the effects of any changes on bandwidth, latency, and stability.
For benchmarking we tend to use Memset once the XP operating system has loaded rather than entering overly tight settings directly in the BIOS. We can then begin to tighten the sub-timings far beyond 24/7 settings. We have attached Memset screenshots for both our 24/7 stable and sub-zero benchmarking so that users can see how far we were able to push for maximum scores.
Additional Setting Ranges:
MCH ODT Latency: ODT (On Die Termination) is used to match the MCH output impedance to the termination resistance of the RAM. Use of 1-2 is fine in most cases. Even for 4GB overclocking we did not find that more than a setting of 1 was required.
Write to PRE Delay (tWR): Range is from 10-13. For high RAM speed, use 12 and above for stability; for benchmarking 10-12 will be faster. Lower is faster.
Rank Write to Read (tWTR): Range is 9-11. Use 11 for stability and 10 or 9 for benchmarking. Lower is faster.
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD): Range is 2-5. 3 is a good setting that allows high enough FSBs for most users. Higher numbers result in less memory read performance.
Read to Write Delay (tRDWR): Range is 8-9. 8 is ideal for most users; higher values are slower.
Ranks Write to Write (tWRWR): AUTO
Ranks Read to Read (tRDRD): AUTO
Ranks Write to Read (tWRRD): AUTO
The ranges for all these settings are quite well manipulated by SPD and BIOS. For those wishing to experiment, 4 is the lowest and most aggressive setting. 5-4-5 may work for SuperPi type benching. There is a slight write/copy speed increase with tighter settings, but this is only useful for the extracting the last ounce of performance. For stability these are best left on AUTO
Read CAS# Precharge (tRTP): 2-3 works well on this board for most users. 2 is used for benchmarking while 3 and upwards are best for stability.
ALL PRE to Refresh: Range is 4-5. 4 works fine with quad-core CPUs all the way to 475 FSB. A setting of 4 is fine for most benchmarking, unless shooting high over 500FSB.
Using AUTO for all sub-timings is generally acceptable until we start pushing for every last MHz of bandwidth and latency. The BIOS defaults are generally tight enough for very good performance on 24/7 PCs. The BIOS profiles we are including in this article have been tuned for maximum performance while retaining full system stability. We used Memset 3.3 while running Microsoft XP to check where the AUTO DRAM timing defaults set the memory parameters. The timings shown by Memset were noted by us and entered manually into the relevant BIOS functions. We then began to tighten these values one at a time, noting the effects of any changes on bandwidth, latency, and stability.
For benchmarking we tend to use Memset once the XP operating system has loaded rather than entering overly tight settings directly in the BIOS. We can then begin to tighten the sub-timings far beyond 24/7 settings. We have attached Memset screenshots for both our 24/7 stable and sub-zero benchmarking so that users can see how far we were able to push for maximum scores.
Additional Setting Ranges:
MCH ODT Latency: ODT (On Die Termination) is used to match the MCH output impedance to the termination resistance of the RAM. Use of 1-2 is fine in most cases. Even for 4GB overclocking we did not find that more than a setting of 1 was required.
Write to PRE Delay (tWR): Range is from 10-13. For high RAM speed, use 12 and above for stability; for benchmarking 10-12 will be faster. Lower is faster.
Rank Write to Read (tWTR): Range is 9-11. Use 11 for stability and 10 or 9 for benchmarking. Lower is faster.
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD): Range is 2-5. 3 is a good setting that allows high enough FSBs for most users. Higher numbers result in less memory read performance.
Read to Write Delay (tRDWR): Range is 8-9. 8 is ideal for most users; higher values are slower.
Ranks Write to Write (tWRWR): AUTO
Ranks Read to Read (tRDRD): AUTO
Ranks Write to Read (tWRRD): AUTO
The ranges for all these settings are quite well manipulated by SPD and BIOS. For those wishing to experiment, 4 is the lowest and most aggressive setting. 5-4-5 may work for SuperPi type benching. There is a slight write/copy speed increase with tighter settings, but this is only useful for the extracting the last ounce of performance. For stability these are best left on AUTO
Read CAS# Precharge (tRTP): 2-3 works well on this board for most users. 2 is used for benchmarking while 3 and upwards are best for stability.
ALL PRE to Refresh: Range is 4-5. 4 works fine with quad-core CPUs all the way to 475 FSB. A setting of 4 is fine for most benchmarking, unless shooting high over 500FSB.
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retrospooty - Sunday, October 21, 2007 - link
Not really. Check this memory test here at AT. http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=312...">http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=312...At DDR 2000 at 6X500 CPU the best sisoft standard memory score for DDR3 is 9138 at DDR3 2000 8-7-6-18 ... I get 8871 with my DDR2 1000mhz at 4-4-4-10 with a similar setup on the DFI P35 mobo. DDR3 even at a highly overclocked 2000mhz is hardly faster than DDR2 at 1000 now. I am not going to go to DDR3 until Nehalem is cheap, and DDR3 latency is lower and cheap, 2 more years out.
And PCI-E 2.0 is not going to help for a long time. Like with PCI to AGP, and AGP to PCI-E there is no improvement at all right off the bat. The graphic bus standard is always WAY ahead of the actual cards need for it, 1-2 years at least. We are not even utilizing PCI-E 8x, much less 16x, not even with dual 8800GTX's. Also , PCI-E 2.0 is backward compatible, so I I get the latest greatest Graphic card next year (whatever it is) it will be PCI-E 2.0, but will work fine on PCI-E 1 motherboards.
Raja Gill - Thursday, October 18, 2007 - link
It's one of those things in life, despite having no real logic to it, 'tweaking' actually has a market. DFI took a risk, while this segment does not guarantee large sale volumes, some of the return is made up in a higher profit margin. Without DFI around, some of the more pioneering BIOS options (that actually are of use to Joe blow due to Intel's binning strategy), would never filter thru to other boards. The asking price is high, both Gary and myself recognised this. It has to be said that those who have paid the premium have generally not been dissapointed. In terms of the cascade results, yes, boardss like this and Asus's ROG line are used by the benchmarking community to chase big records, again this is a growing community who pays high dollar for every last drop of performance. We are aiming to satisfy a slightly wider audience with the performance board reviews, by looking at how they will be used, and help out with settings by spending long hours exploring the BIOS functions ourselves, still trying to give a balanced view for JB and some insight to help the benchmarkers decide if the board fits their needs... The bios's on so many of these boards are getting more complex, we hope those who buy the boards can use some of the settings we provide to get a base to work from, (if they need it)..If there's anything else you would like to see added, please let us know....
regards
Raja
Jodiuh - Friday, October 19, 2007 - link
SCREW THEM ALL! I've been drinking and still managed this in under 2 hours.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/jodiuh/DFI%...">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/...0UT%20P3...
Sure I've been able to achieve good results w/ lowly air on the Giga DS3, Asus P5B, DFI Dark, and Abit IP35, but this board:
1. makes oc fun
2. great layout (usb ports towards the front where they should be, shame Abit)
3. great stock cooling, especially for air
4. excellent bios
5. did I mention speed drunk oc? (beer, then 50mhz on the bus)
It's truly a great game. And for about $260, it's a steal. There's no other board that offers this much pleasure. Sure it's $, but then didn't most of you pay $320 for your 6600's? :D
Avalon - Friday, October 19, 2007 - link
Any drunk monkey could OC a decent C2D to 3.5Ghz. I've had plenty of fun OC'ing on my $90 Gigabyte P35 DS3L, which also has a great layout and decent BIOS. It's no DFI, but it gets the job done for $160 less, which is enough money for me to buy a decent video card, 4GB of RAM, 750GB of hard drive space, etc...Don't get me wrong, DFI is by far my favorite motherboard company, and their BIOS tweaking is the best available. However, I will NEVER consider a $260 board a "steal" when the only thing I'll get out of it over a significantly cheaper board is that I have more settings to play with if I feel bored. Fortunately, when I get bored, I load up a game, instead.
cmdrdredd - Saturday, October 20, 2007 - link
Avalon hit it right on the head. Any decent C2D can do over 3.2Ghz and some up close to 4Ghz with proper cooling on $90 boards. There is absolutely NO reason to buy a $260 board this late to market. Not to mention that it is also slower than boards which retail for less money in this review at the settings used.The number of people actually willing to and wanting to use 550Mhz+ FSB is too small to matter.
/end
Jodiuh - Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - link
Most of the 965 board's are a crap shoot for 500fsb, but the 2 p35's I've used had no qualms about this. It's not just getting the OC for me tho. I needed a board that:-doesn't look like rainbow brite exploded on it (Gigabyte DS3)
-doesn't use an AMI bios, hits 500+ FSB easily (Asus P5B Deluxe)
-doesn't crackle (DFI P965-S, Abit IP35 Pro)
-isn't NV (EVGA 680i)
-has usb ports, front panel header, and SATA ports in the far right of the board
-and of course the great stock cooling (uses nuts/bolts), excellent bios, and stable voltages add to the package
There's just no other non-Asus board that did all that right now. Paying another $70 for the extras isn't an issue for a hobbyist that plays w/ his rig.
Acanthus - Friday, October 19, 2007 - link
Yes, we did.And on quad cores, this board does no better than other boards much cheaper than itself.
I am not here to bash DFI, they make great stuff.
The price of admission is too high for this board for quad overclocking from the results i've seen. The FSB limitation appears to be the G0 quads themselves, they all seem to top out at 470-510fsb anyway. The Asus P5K and Gigabyte P35 DQ6 both easily do those speeds on unmodified boards.
customcoms - Thursday, October 18, 2007 - link
Thanks anandtech for providing an overclocking article TRULY worth reading! We needed a motherboard review like this when DFI's original nForce4 boards came out-trying to figure out every bios option, while fun and rewarding, is a very very time consuming process.Its one thing for a reviewer to claim "this board is capable of 500+ fsb speeds" and another COMPLETELY for that reviewer to document virtually every step and every bios option they used to get to that speed. This review is along the lines of the user reviews I normally turn to to verify the components I am interested work as advertised. While the cascade cooling results and extreme price of this board could have been left out, it is good to see a reviewer actually using the hardware in the environment a $300 (or $260, or any board over $200 imo) motherboard is going to be used in.
Jodiuh - Thursday, October 18, 2007 - link
It can be found for $260 from motherboardpro. Comes w/ a nice little LAN carrying harness too.cmdrdredd - Thursday, October 18, 2007 - link
Still too much money. As was said before, it still does not beat some of the boards which have been out for a long time. Sure it looks nice, but for the money spent here, you can buy more memory or the next step up in CPU if you go with a less expensive board.It's late, expensive, and does not have any magic that makes me say "it's better than anything else out there". Even the $90 IP35-E is a good match against this DFI board unless you have to or like to spend hours setting up the bios just so.
It's nice, but like I said too little too late.